Overtime Is Back: New Host, Meg Lewis Talks 2020 Goals & List Making

Welcome to the new Overtime! In this episode, host Meg Lewis and today’s co-host Andy J. Pizza chat about design trends, foam pits, productivity, and the value of New Year’s resolutions.

Subscribe to Overtime on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or download the episode via Simplecast.

Links Mentioned

• David Allen: The Mind Is For Creating Idea, Not Holding Them

Transcript

Meg: Welcome to the first-ever episode of Overtime. This is Dribbble’s weekly – yes weekly, this is a huge commitment for me – podcast that explores the most interesting design news, and I’ll give you the tips you need to create your very best work. I’m your host Meg, “the tool-man” Lewis – made myself laugh there.

I am a brand designer currently, and I work to make the world a happier place through a lot of things like books, workshops, videos, talks, I do spaces and pop-ups, and podcasts like this one. And why did Dribbble choose me as their host? It’s probably because I’ve been a freelance designer for like 10, 11 years now, and I have done a lot of different kinds of design, I mean, I used to call myself a product designer and was a product designer – [I] promise – which seems like lifetimes ago, and maybe the fact that I’ve done so many different kinds of design is what makes me qualified to be here. Sure.

Dribbble chose me to host this podcast, probably because I very much have an open attitude and am notorious for not taking anything too seriously, which may or may not be a good thing, given that I am delivering design news to you. We’ll see. And from time to time I’ll have guest hosts and special guests that know a lot more than me in certain areas like today, Illustrator and fellow podcaster, Andy J Pizza! Hi Andy.

Andy: Hi.

Meg: Hi.

Andy: There were like seven times where I tried not to laugh. I didn’t know if I was supposed to laugh. But especially “Meg ‘the tool-man’ Taylor.”

Meg: Yeah, well we don’t want to give the surprise away that you’re here so if people can recognize you by your little giggles, we don’t want that. So, Andy, you are an illustrator and you are also known for your podcast Creative Pep Talk. So, Andy, how do I host a podcast?

Andy: I don’t know, I’ve been doing it for five years and I feel like I’m just starting to learn how to do that. I don’t know how you’re going to do it in 20 minutes.

Meg: I don’t either. Yeah, we’ll see. If this episode ends up being 40 minutes long, everybody, I apologize. It’s my first time, we’ll make them shorter next time.

Andy: Yeah.

Meg: Coming up in this episode, we’ll be doing a recap of the 2010s – that sounds weird to say – and look ahead at the year 2020. Andy and I will chat about our own plans and thoughts on setting new year’s resolutions, and we’ll talk techniques for making plans and lists as we navigate this inevitably wacky year. Let’s go!

Okay, I love coming through listicles and articles about looking back in the past and looking into the future and fast company launched an article where they outlined the design trends of the whole decade of the 2010s and said which ones they that we have to leave behind – so dramatic – because they’re claiming that these trends are so bad that we just, we have to leave them behind.

Andy: Do you just feel like you instantly want to be like, ‘I’m going to commit to all of these things?

Meg: Yeah, it makes me want to do them more. Exactly. And I always go through those lists ready to roll my eyes, and also ready to kind of agree like let’s see if we can find some camaraderie about things that we agree are bad together but, this list I found to be pretty enjoyable. So, put on your design hat for hot sec because I’m going to read you a few of these and I just want to hear your thoughts on them. Okay, so here are the trends that we have to leave behind. Andy, here we go.

Andy: Okay, I’m ready.

Meg: Okay, so one of the things they said was intentionally bad design so ironically bad design. The example that they gave was, I guess Captain Marvel when it came out, their website was made to look like an old geo city site, it was really bad on purpose. And so they say that we have to leave intentionally bad design behind. What do you think?

Andy: I have a feeling that you disagree with this. Is that accurate?

Meg: Yeah. Um, yeah, I don’t know, I think it’s fun. […] It’s a way to have fun with design and I think there’s nothing wrong with that and I think sometimes people are definitely intentionally trying to be good and it comes out bad, and that I don’t love as much. But I don’t have a problem with ironically bad design, personally.

Andy: Yeah, I mean, I like that kind of vibe. I had an angel fire site that was a fan page for the trunks character from Dragonball Z reminds and it kind of reminds me of that, and I love that. And also, I think, halfway through, I don’t know, the 2010s I feel like Frank, is it Chimero?

Meg: Chimero, yep.

Andy: You know him, right?

Meg: Yeah.

Andy: Yeah, so I don’t know how to say his name, but I like him a lot, he’s a big inspiration to me, and you know, his shape of design talk, he talked a lot about squishy humans and making things less slick. And I think that that was, you know, kind of foretelling this re-hashing of old crappy designs from the 90s and I actually think it makes the internet more fun when we don’t, you know, obsess over web standards, although I don’t know exactly what that means. By the way, can I just say real quick, I have a graphic design degree. So although I’m an illustrator…

Meg: You are, you have credentials.

Andy: Anyway, yeah, I like it. What makes the internet a little bit more fun, why do we keep policing it like that, as designers?

Meg: I don’t know. Alright, next bad trend that they want to go away, and I have thoughts on this one – it’s generic startup art direction photo style. So we all know what that looks like. In the 2010s it became very popular: bright colors, like maybe a hand coming out of a hole, holding a product or something. It’s like color blocking and well-lit studio environments. What are your initial thoughts on this?

Andy: I’m more – I want to hear yours, because I don’t have a strong opinion about this because I don’t feel like I was, I never really was embedded into that culture. I always kind of saw from afar. And so … reading that even didn’t stir much up for me.

Meg: You feel nothing. So my thought about it is it’s a complicated issue for me just because I started designing before that trend got big, and I have a very specific style and I always have had that style and whenever I was designing for products and UI and doing really serious brands for corporations and health companies, my style was still there and I couldn’t stop making it because it’s what my brain wants to make.

So, I was constantly getting in trouble and getting fired by clients for making things that were too friendly and personable. And once this startup-y trend started happening, it made my work palatable and it made large brands really want to work with me because everything was turning to a more friendly space. And so, it was a great time and it still is a great time for me specifically to be a designer because when I first started designing, everything was so serious and dry. And it was very hard for me to succeed in that world.

And now we’re in this place where every brand wants to seem friendly and personable. My only complaint about it is that we’ve made it mean nothing because that’s just the default now. And why are brands doing that now? We don’t know, they don’t know either. They’re just doing it because everybody else is doing it, so I just like to work with companies to try and get them to think about the why behind what they’re doing, so that ultimately, they can create something that maybe is friendly and personable but looks unlike anything else.

So, I love the trend and I’m excited that it exists. Friendliness is good. But I hope that we move into a space of thinking a little bit more about why we’re doing it.

Andy: I think that’s really good. I think that the – I guess my natural response to that is, it felt a little harsh in that I think it didn’t – the startup-y, which, is that your word?

Meg: Yeah, I don’t know. That’s what I’m saying today.

Andy: I like that. The startup-y style of photography and kind of brand photos, I feel like there’s a real humanity to them. I like vector work, and I like 3D work, but I feel like, in the tech world, it’s really easy for them to go there. They seem to want every, you know, image that they purchase to be able to be scaled to infinity because you never know when you need to put it on the side of a skyscraper. And I just think like there’s something about illustration that’s not vector and photography that is obviously not vector, that gives it humanity so I feel like even though I think the trend aspect of some of the finer details of whether maybe the color backgrounds get, they’re not as bright now they’re pastel or something, like, you know some of those little trend elements might shift.

But I think there’s some deeper things that are less of a trend and more of a movement embedded in there. I think that’s why it got so popular. And I think it’s something about making the internet feel, again, squishy human, not as slick. And I think that the second half of the 2010s – there was a lot of that and I hope that keeps happening because I think that’s good for the internet.

Meg: Absolutely, and in the realm of slick versus squishy, you know I do love sliding down a hot metal slide on a playground but I much prefer foam pit. I love foam pits, I would so love to fling my body into a foam pit right now.

Andy: That’s a trend that needs to start up.

Meg: So, let’s talk about design trends and the forecast for 2020.

Andy: Okay.

Meg: I combed through list after list, all these listicles from publications predicting the design trends of 2020, and I love this so much, who knows, who knows what will happen. It’s great. And so, I combed through all these lists and found all of the ones that were the very most common, the ones that most people are saying. So, we have, here we go. We’ve got monochromatic so people talking about, okay, in illustration, in design, in interiors, in fashion, things are going to be monochromatic so we’re going to start wearing all purple outfits. We’re going to live in all beige – I hope not – spaces. And so, have you been using monochromatic palettes a lot?

Andy: Uh, no, but that’s kind of pretty outside my spectrum. But my 11 year old daughter has been wearing monochromatic outfits, so she’s probably ahead of the curve so, yeah.

Meg: I have always wanted to be the cool person that wears like a different tonality of the same color outfit.

Andy: Yeah, and I’ve noticed that, and I think fashion probably precedes, you know, design trends I’m guessing. Yeah. I can see that happening.

Meg: What do you think about this other design trend they have coming up for 2020, big – I will like this one – big giant typography only layouts. It’s like they wrote that one for me.

Andy: Yeah, that’s a good one for you. Yeah, you know, hopefully they throw some illustration in there from time to time, but I like the flavor of that. I like the, you know, Swiss, European vibes of that I think the fact that could –

Meg: Design degree coming out here. Okay, so the next trend that they have is unexpected color combinations like putting two colors that don’t necessarily go together, together, and on top of one another, which, fine with me. I guess we’ll see.

Andy: Yeah, I don’t know, that sounds okay.

Meg: I don’t know what that looks like yet.

Andy: It’s, I don’t know. To me, that sounds like a cop out of a trend. Like, you know, all colors have been put together at different times.

Meg: Ooh, very, very good.

Andy: Sometimes it happens, and sometimes it doesn’t.

Meg: Good job, Andy.

Andy: It just seems like something to say. Like next year it’s going to be: this just in, colors that go well together are being put back together.

Meg: Oh yeah. She just put neon green with orange. [Laughs] I’m just naming two colors. All right, let’s move on.

Andy: Next.

Meg: The last news story today is that Pantone announced their color of the Year for 2020 and people were really bummed about it, and the color is quote: classic blue. And they say that they chose this one because it has a timeless and enduring hue elegant, and it is very simplicity [sic]. I just read that quote so wrong. This is how Pantone talks about itself: “we are timeless and endure are hue elegant and simplicity.”

Andy: [Laughs] I really enjoyed that more than their release.

Meg: Yeah this is why you have me host a news podcast. To misquote everyone.

Andy: Yeah. My biggest beef with this one is what they call classic blue.

Meg: Yeah what is the definition of classic blue hmm.

Andy: That’s not what I would think of as classic blue.

Meg: What do you think of as classic blue?

Andy: Cobalt. That’s what – that’s blue.

Meg: Oh, my mouth just watered.

Andy: That’s what I thought. I thought that’d be good but then this is darker than I expected.

Meg: Yeah, it’s a little – people were saying it was Facebook blue, LinkedIn blue.

**Andy: Yeah.

Meg: It’s fine. They said something like, I’m not even going to try to quote them because I don’t remember but they said something about how the world needs it right now, because we’re such a mess.

Andy: We need to reset.

Meg: They were like, just calm down and look at this blue.

Andy: Yeah, I wasn’t crazy about it, you know. A lot of times though, people will be like this new color’s getting on-trend and I’m like, I don’t understand it and then some amazing designer illustrator figures out how to use it in a way that I never expected so, impress me. Somebody out there listening, show us how do you use blue to reset.

Meg: I love it so much when there are new trends and I’m like, yuck, gross. And I’m not necessarily talking about design, any trend, fashion, whatever. And I’m like, ooh crocs gross. Everyone’s wearing crocs what’s happening or whatever the trend is and then I’m always excited to see how long it takes me to come around to it and then eventually will be like, oh, that person does do it in a nice way. Maybe I do want that.

Andy: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, show us. Show us what you can do with classic blue.

Meg: It would be a total bummer if we had a beginning of the year kickoff first episode of Overtime without mentioning New Year’s resolutions so let’s talk about them. What are your thoughts on resolutions?

Andy: I’m an enthusiast. So I don’t – I know that – I feel like the cool answer, the answer if I was on Twitter that I should say, would be like, and I don’t want to be crass but just, you know, insert expletive here resolutions, right? Like, you know what I’m saying.

Meg: I am putting two and two together here I think you might. Yes. Okay. So you’re saying that yes you’re picking up on the fact that people like to shame other people for making resolutions.

Andy: Exactly. Yeah, I think that’s the cool thing to do, but I don’t feel that way. How do you feel about it?

Meg: Yeah, you know I used to, I would never publicly say anything, but I used to have the thought process of: humans do a thing where they say they’re going to do something and it really bothers me when people make great declarations about, I’m going to do this thing. And then, it never happens. And so that has, since I was a kid, always bothered me about humans.

And so, when it kind of came to New Year’s resolutions I used to look at people and be like, you made this huge declaration about whatever you’re going to do and then of course you know like two weeks later, it’s not even on your mind anymore. And that used to bother me but now I don’t care.

People, you know if people want to try to do something, and if making a declaration about something makes them feel good and helps them to start doing it, then great. You can’t do anything unless you start and try to do it first.

Andy: Exactly. And that gets to the heart of it for me. It’s that I just don’t want to discourage people from trying to be better, trying to try to do something. Like, you know, being harsh on that even though I’m not sure resolutions are the best way. But then on top of all that, I’m going to go dad-mode real quick and just say, you know, when my son is struggling to do something, we have to come up with like three or four different strategies before something clicks. But when something really clicks, like he was struggling to go to school this year, so we had to like, we had several different incentive programs and ideas and all these things, and nothing worked.

But then one time we tried something totally different. And ever since that day he has been super happy to go to school. And so, to me it’s just like, you know for some people resolutions and making them in that certain particular way might work. And I just don’t want to be the one, you know, talking crap about that because if that’s the thing that gets them to quit doing some self-destructive habit or whatever, I’m just like, keep trying. Try whatever, figure it out. Keep, whatever, whatever you want to try.

Meg: Heck yes. And for me, I really actually, I don’t like setting goals and making lists, which is a bummer because we’re going to talk about that soon. But this year, because I like to be free and I like to not know what’s happening in my future, this year I’ve done a thing where instead of big resolutions, I just have kind of set more of a larger intention on auditing who I was last year and was it truly reflective of who I am, and my core. And how can I shed away a little bit more of that and allow myself to be more open and myself in public which I always really struggle with even though it may not look like that.

It’s been an uphill battle for me to take the person who I am when I’m alone and allow the world to see that. So, every year around this time, I think back to the last year of what I did and how I could be a little bit more myself. And so, this year, what I’m trying to do is, it’s weird to say this but I’m trying to be more positive. So I think most people would assume that I’m like super positive and that’s true but whenever I get around crowds of people that might be negative, types of people who are self-deprecating, I kind of blend into that mode and start to do that with them, even though that’s not who I am at my core. I just try to kind of, you know, become a little bit of the audience that I’m around at the time. So, this year I want to kind of stand up for my own personality a little bit more and that’s my only resolution.

Andy: I love it. Are you a contrarian?

Meg: No, not naturally.

Andy: I guess there’s no way to answer that because a contrarian would only say no.

Meg: I guess that’s true.

Andy: But anyway, sorry.

Meg: Trick question.

Andy: But it’s just, your way of doing resolutions is to do the opposite so instead of looking forward, look backward, taking it to an interesting place anyway because you’re looking at what, you know, because you ended up setting an intention that way for the new year, either way. There’s just, yeah, I think about it – I did a similar thing this year, of, I thought about 2019 as a level of a video game. And before I moved on to 2020, that level, to go back through and make sure I didn’t miss any hidden items like, just take stock of like, how did this year – before like moving on to what we’re going to do next time like, just similar to you is like, where were the areas that were really working and double down on those and where were the areas where I totally had blind spots or I missed stuff. And that was actually really, really helpful and I feel much clearer now than I did all of 2020, and that was that process.

Meg: So, when keeping track of what the heck you do with yourself and your year, I think most of it – most of making it happen involves keeping track and generally being organized, I used to do this thing where I would be like, I don’t need a list. I have it all in my brain and my brain remembers. And my brain’s so anxious that it’s constantly running through my tasks, and then it finally occurred to me one day that if I just wrote it down, then I wouldn’t have to be anxious all the time.

Andy: True. Absolutely.

Meg: So, yeah, what specific listaking or goal-tracking techniques work specifically for you?

Andy: I’m really desperately trying to figure that out. I heard this quote from a productivity czar. I don’t know if he’s actually a czar or not, but David Allen says brains are good for having ideas but not holding them. And I had just heard that, and I wrote every single project and idea and whatever’s in my head on my windows with a dry erase marker, and that helped for like six months. And now I’m trying to figure out maybe, maybe getting into bullet journaling, although I’m really scared of it. Janna Morton who’s an illustrator, went to MICA – really great work – she’s gone deep, deep into the journal world, and I like the analog vibe of it and I like just getting it all down in a way that’s not laborious. But, I’m also very scared and I’m not an organized person so I don’t know if it’s going to happen.

Meg: Yeah, one thing that I’ve noticed that I do every day is, I kind of just am sort of hurling at the sun constantly, spinning around and around and doing so much, and not really thinking too much. Not stopping, a lot of times I’ll forget to eat. I’m that kind of person where I’m just like you’ve got a lot to do today, got to keep going. And it’s very intense and I love it that way. But what I find is that I don’t even become a person throughout the day, I’m just like a machine and I feel like a machine and by the end of the day, I’m just completely exhausted.

So, what I’m trying to do this year is take some time at the very beginning of every day to be a little bit more intentional about that day. So I started this year, I just have a very short list, about my intentions for the day and the first one is be good to your body so I think, how can I be good to my body today, whether it’s like, eating really healthy or if it’s like, working out a little bit or doing something that lowers my stress limits. I also think about how I can be good to my mind.

So again, a lot of times for me that involves exercise to kind of reduce my anxiety and stress, or maybe I’m going to therapy that day or doing something that’s just for me to cool down my brain. I think, okay, you’ve got to hydrate so I make sure that I fill up my water and I prioritize drinking water. And then [I also decided that] in the beginning of the day, I have to be myself and not lose track of who that is throughout the day which is super important, because otherwise I just become a robot, and a machine, a cog in the machine, and that’s not good.

And so those are the kind of the intentions that I’m starting every day with and it helps me to plan my day because, if you know me, you know that I’ll like just do whatever I want all the time. And I love working so I’ll work a lot and then I’ll just like go buzz off and have two margaritas with lunch, and then I’ll take a nap for a while and then I’ll work again until two in the morning and it’s just a weird lifestyle I have where I give myself whatever I want, whenever I want it. And so, starting off with intentions to make sure that I’m on track and taking care of myself properly is really helpful.

Andy: That’s really good. I’ve been doing, not every day, but I’d say two or three days a week, starting with a to-do list. That’s a really simple thing on my phone just with a little, you know checkmark, click circles, and that’s actually way [more] helpful rather than this rolling to-do list that’s just infinite and massive where you never feel like you get anywhere, and just having like, you know, three to five things that are like, these are the things I have to do today. And that that’s been helpful and it’s really simple.

Meg: That’s really nice and it probably helps you to understand when your day is over because you’ve completed those tasks.

Andy: Exactly. Yep. I’ve been taken way early, I try to go home early when I can because there’s so many days where [I] burn extra oil because of a deadline or whatever. So yeah, it’s helped me like, go home when my kids get out of school from time to time and exercise and all that good stuff.

Meg: Excellent.

Meg: Well that’s it for this week’s episode of overtime.

Andy: Yeah!

Meg: If you want to continue the conversation on the internet, use the hashtag #DribbbleOvertime. And if you loved this episode, and loved, Andy.

Andy: Are they going to vote me off or on for the guest spot? Okay.

Meg: Okay, yeah, I’ll just extinguish his torch. I will take his graphic design diploma and I’ll crash it over my knee and throw it out the window. Very cinematic.

Andy: We don’t want you back. Stick to drawing.

Meg: But if you loved this episode and love the podcast, the new version of this podcast, leave us a kind review on Apple podcast and touch and caress that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you have news stories that might be interesting to me, or topics or ideas don’t forget to tweet or tag me, Meg Lewis on the internet. My handle is @darngooood with four O’s, people. Don’t tweet at the @darngood with two O’s, it’s very annoying for them.

But I will be passing through Oklahoma City next week teaching a workshop. I’m going to teach my first ever “Find Your Style” workshop, which is very exciting. And I’m giving a talk with AIGA Oklahoma, next week, and I think tickets are still available so please stop by. Andy, do you have any final words or anything you want to promote?

Andy: I’ll say thanks for having me. I don’t get to always talk to the design crowd that often, so I feel excited for that. I did just release an episode of my podcast, “Creative Pep Talk.” It’s Episode 259 and it’s 20 prompts, creative prompts from my creative heroes. So, like weird mental gymnastics, thought experiments that get you to do things you wouldn’t have done in your work, and I’m super pumped about it. Go check it out, wherever you get podcasts.

Meg: Okay, bye.

Andy: Bye!

Meg: See you next week.