Overtime

Episode 35: Making design a family affair with Josh and Katie Emrich

Episode 35 features Josh and Katie Emrich of Emrich Office. This Indianapolis-based husband and wife team run an incredible design studio while raising four kids. They do amazing identity branding work for clients like Bottle Logic, Keymaster Games, Turner Dairy, and more. Warning: this episode is going to make you want to buy a bottle of milk (even if you don’t drink milk), just because of the branding.

I think one of the things that has aligned with most of our clients is—our best clients are family businesses like us. That really resonates with this idea that our family is just really ingrained into what we do every day. That's the same for them, as well.

In this episode, Josh and Katie share what it’s like to start your own business to spend more time with family, what fuels their passion for working with family brands, the importance of cultivating relationships with clients, and more.

This episode is brought to you by Wix. Push the limits of design and start creating beautiful, impactful websites that are uniquely yours at wix.com/dribbble.

  1. Seismic Brewing Co. Liquifaction Kölsch
  2. Campy Creatures Game
  3. Turner's Chocolate Banana

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Transcript

Dan: Welcome to the show. Welcome to Overtime.

Josh: Thanks for having us.

Katie: Yes. Thank you.

Dan: Yeah. It’s awesome to have you on, because I’ve been such a fan of your work on Dribbble and elsewhere for a long time, and it’s just amazing. Reading your quick bio that you’re a husband and wife team, and you’re in Indiana and raising four kids while you pump out this incredible work. I just thought, man, there’s a good story here on top of the amazing work that already has a good story.

Dan: I guess starting at the beginning, maybe, how you basically built Emrich Office as a team, and what it’s like in Indiana doing that.

Josh: Yeah. I had a design firm that I was a part of before Emrich Office, and it was called Tenfold. Some people out there might remember Tenfold, but we were based in Colorado. I had a great partner, and together we built this design firm and didn’t really know who we wanted to be when we grew up. We worked with a little bit of everyone. I think as time … I think so much has changed in our industry. For a long time, you didn’t want to work with a lot of people in the same industry, clients in the same industry, for conflicts of interest, but I think there’s definitely become more teams of people that specialize with a certain type of clientele.

Josh: One of the things that developed over the years with Tenfold was a craft beer, which a lot of the work that you see from Emrich Office is craft beer. That was me driving that side of the business. Long story short, when I started Tenfold, I only had one child with Katie, and then by the time Tenfold reached at least five years, we had four. We had a lot of kids in a short amount of time. The pressures of running a studio, and I was only 26 when we started Tenfold. At most, we had around six employees. It was really difficult for our marriage. I was gone a lot. I was frustrated. At one point, we had gotten to a financial shortfall in terms of trying to keep employees on staff during the great recession. I think there was a lot of people that went through that, and I think out of that just came this idea of really— and as much as I enjoyed being a part of a larger design team, I really missed being around my family, which is understandable.

Josh: I think part of it, Emrich Office was born out of two things was just sort of one, trying to keep our marriage together, trying to keep that healthy, but just also the idea of simplifying and not missing out on what’s going on with my kids. But I also noticed our kids have inherited their parents’ artistic love of art and artistic ability. It’s something that I almost wanted to be able to share what I do more with my kids, and being home and having them see how I work became how Emrich Office got started. We both had reached a point where something had to change, and so that’s the beginning of Emrich Office.

Dan: Yeah, that’s great. What a great reason to build that. Like a lifestyle change, really.

Josh: Yeah.

Dan: You were in Colorado, and then you’re in Indiana now.

Josh: Yeah.

Dan: How was that switch going from … What does it matter? It doesn’t even matter where you’re … Because you guys are working with a lot of different clients all over. How does your location play into what you do and all?

Katie: The location hasn’t really changed much as far as business. The reason for the move, we had talked back and forth about being closer to family. My family is originally from Florida, and everyone had moved back. His family has never left Indiana, so they were all there. We just talked on and off about should we stay? Should we move? We loved where we were. Colorado is beautiful. We had wonderful friends, a great support network. But it just felt like it was time. As the kids were getting older, we wanted them close to grandparents and cousins and that whole life with family. So we took the plunge and moved across the country. I’m generally very optimistic, and I was like, “Oh, it will be great. We’ll be fine. We can do this.” It was pretty quick. From decision to closing was six weeks.

Dan: Oh, wow.

Katie: I packed up our house single-handedly, because Josh couldn’t stop working. After a year after our move, I realized that was huge. That was a little more stressful than I thought. This is our second year going in, and I think we finally recovered, like are starting to slow down and settle in and really love where we are.

Dan: That’s awesome.

Josh: I would say the business move was the easiest part. I think one of the things that’s just really changed for me over the last few years is I have clients that are everywhere. Predominantly most of our clients are on the West coast, which is interesting. I think the hardest thing was moving from the Mountain Time Zone, which is nice, because you straddle everybody, but it was weighted more to the Pacific side. I think the hard thing for me now has been my clients are calling at dinnertime. Their work hours are still going on in the evening, so it’s pushed my day into an interesting place where I try to get a lot done while they’re all still asleep, and then I’m fielding questions and answering things more in the evening. So it just created a more interesting dynamic that way.

Josh: I think one of the things that’s changed, too, is just in general, designers are working with people all over the place. You’re not really tied to a location any more in terms of where your business might come from. It’s made things a little bit more global and national for terms of client base, so we really felt like we could live anywhere. Even when I first left Tenfold, we went on these epic summer road trips with the family, just trying to one, reset, but working from the road, I know that there’s a lot of designers that do this, but most of them don’t have four kids in tow. So we were on the road for about a month and a half, and we did that two summers in a row. It was a great opportunity to reset and rethink and take advantage of not having employees to worry about.

Dan: Yeah, I bet. Emrich Office is just both of you, right? Other employees or anything like that?

Josh: Right now, it’s just the two of us.

Dan: Which is incredible. I can’t even believe … I’m looking at your work, and I’m like, how do you do it? Just looking at some projects here, like … Well, first of all, I’d like to ask you about Campy Creatures, because this is one that you posted a lot on Dribbble about this, and I remember it catching my eye. I just … It’s incredible. I think that you … The illustration, obviously … Typography and illustration and all that come together really cohesively in this, well, in all your work, really, but in this one, it’s so fun. I wonder if you can tell us about this project?

Josh: Yeah. I appreciate the kind words on that project. It was definitely a turning point for us. It came about from the guys that own Keymaster Games are actually designers and illustrators, so it’s Mattox Shuler and Kyle Key. Kyle has a great story, because about how he created Keymaster Games. Mattox is Fort Foundry and creates typefaces.

Dan: Right, right.

Josh: They had seen my work for Bottle Logic, which has several different illustration styles that we have rolling for them. One of them has a very pulpy sci-fi novel feel. They were looking for a way to translate and create a game that’s themed around classic movie monsters. They saw that work and thought that I could be a good fit for that, and they got a lot more than they bargained for. It’s interesting, because I know … When you work alone and you have your own process, you’re not sure what other designers really engage in.

Josh: I think I just have always had this … I have a hard time not getting involved in all aspects of the project. I think sometimes that’s more of a way to gather control, but it was really fun, because I love having input on the beers that we work on and flavor notes and coming up with ideas with that, but with the game, it was really fun to get into aspects of the game play and how we could help them tie things together thematically. It really started off as a great partnership from the beginning, because we both … They were great art directors, even though they were also designers, because sometimes good designers can also be bad art directors. So that actually worked out really well.

Josh: I basically started researching a bunch of movies and really wanted to get this authentic feel of the 1930s to ’60s classic movie posters. I was looking at a lot of stuff. I love the Hammer film stuff. That stuff had a great almost more of a campy vibe than the Universal stuff. I love the type design on that. I’ve always illustrated all my own projects, and that started as an art director in publishing before Tenfold and everything else. I loved combining, like you said, type and illustration to where it’s … I think that kind of … Projects like that have been where I’m most useful and helpful to the client. This just had a ton of that, where you’re making these each character. Basically, the way that Campy Creatures works is each player has a hand of classic movie monsters, and you’re using them to capture mortals. Each creature card looks like a little mini movie poster for that creature.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. Fantastic.

Josh: That’s where the look was born out of. Then the mortals are differentiated but have a little bit of that same movie, 1950s to ’60s movie monster feel. What was interesting about the game industry is they tend to not, as I discovered, pay their artists a whole lot, but Keymaster, I really lucked into this relationship. Because they’re graphic designers, they really appreciate and want to partner with great artists. One of the cool things about the games that they’ve been producing have been that it really looks different than anything else in the industry. So they gave me a lot of freedom to pursue that look. It was really fun. It was probably the first project where I had the opportunity to post in-progress work, and I know that that’s one of the cool things about Dribbble. With the clients that I typically work with, they don’t really want me showing in-progress work until …

Dan: Right, right. Until it’s done.

Josh: … it’s done. This was the first opportunity that I had to act … They really wanted, because it was Kickstarted, they really wanted to build a following and have stuff to release. So I got to show a little bit more of my process than I normally would and show sketches, which was fun to do. Yeah. It was interesting, because I wasn’t sure how people would perceive the craft beer guy working on a game all of a sudden, but that was interesting about the game, too. It ended up going full circle where we ended up … Bottle Logic, the client that I had done the artwork for that attracted Keymaster, signed on to do some Campy Creatures theme beer. So it came full circle back to beer.

Katie: It was also fun, because it was the first project, I think, that became a family affair. Since it wasn’t beer, our kids were able to see the whole process and get excited about it and pick their favorite monster. We test played the game as a family, and they were a lot more involved just watching their dad work and create these things. They’ve been so excited about the game, like physically existing. We have more than one copy in our house, and they get excited when they have the opportunity to take it to school and show off what their dad has done and play with their friends. It’s been a lot of fun as a family.

Josh: With four kids, that’s a lot of friends’ birthday parties to go to, so we have copies of the game just to hand out for that. It’s been a nice go-to for that.

Dan: Everybody gets Campy Creatures. I love it.

Katie: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Like the Oprah of board games.

Dan: Right. Oh, it’s so cool, and especially cool that it’s clear that you were involved in a lot, like every aspect of the game, even down to the packaging. That seems evident in the other work that you’ve done. Obviously, a lot of the beer stuff. But not only that, I’m looking at the Turner Dairy Farms identity system. It’s just amazing to the point where I don’t even like to drink milk, but I kind of want to buy that, a couple of jugs of this stuff, because the label is so great. Do you find that you’re finding clients that want someone really embedded and all in rather than a hired gun? In other words, do you seek that out or have you just found clients that are great to work with so much that you can embed yourself?

Josh: Yeah. I think part of that is just I don’t know how to work any other way, so they sometimes get more than they bargain for. I also think part of that comes from like my parents weren’t artists. They were pretty far from it. My dad was an engineer. My mom was a homemaker but worked more as a bank teller before she got married. Pretty blue collar family. So I always had to explain myself with what art projects I was working on. Sometimes that meant demonstrating knowledge in other areas, not just art and the craft that I know.

Josh: I think part of it is just this desire to prove myself that I’m not just some dumb artist, that I also know … Creative artist, flighty artist. That I also know parts and can be passionate about, just as passionate about their business as they are. I think that sort of then makes them feel the permission to be passionate about what I do and want to know all the geeky details.

Josh: The example of the Turner’s project, that actually was another one that was born out of craft beer. Their marketing director was a craft beer connoisseur and was really lamenting the fact that the milk case just looks like this big sea of white. There’s not really a whole lot going on there. The more interesting stuff is usually the non-milk products, like coconut milk or whatever. All that stuff has a lot more money that can go into packaging, because the margins are so small on milk these days. So it’s really hard to do anything really innovative.

Josh: I think you really have to dial it up just with the surface graphics of the label, because you’re locked into this format with milk. So we really pushed hard to try to … The client was very trusting. We really aimed at a millennial mom audience with that project. That’s kind of scary for a milk producer to do, because in their minds, milk is for everyone. They don’t want to scare off old ladies or older men that have drank milk ever since they were kids, but they’re really losing … Milk is losing a younger generation, because it’s not seen as much of a staple as it used to be.

Josh: The dairy is really cool, and they have a really cool story. I think one of the things that has aligned with most of our clients is our best clients are family businesses like us that really resonate with this idea that our family is just really ingrained into what we do every day. That’s the same for them, as well. The Turner family has been running this dairy since 1930, and they consistently win best milk in the US. It’s not an organic dairy, but they have really high standards, and they work with a lot of these family farms. I think that’s where I think they appreciate my style of working.

Josh: It’s almost more of that, like a lot of family business owners, that sense of being so involved and so in love with what you do or have this heritage of this business that’s been passed down. I really dig working with people like that. I’ve had experiences working with larger companies, and you just don’t feel as appreciated, and you’re one little cog in the wheel, where you can make a big difference for a smaller company if you can find ways of making a living doing it.

Dan: Yeah. Oh, that’s great. I think it shows that your work has been elevating all these products that you’re helping. Like I said earlier, I don’t drink milk straight, but I want to buy Turner’s.

Josh: I do, too.

Dan: I wish I could.

Josh: Me, too. They’re based in Pittsburgh, so if you’re in the Pittsburgh area, you can have Turner’s. We’re in Indiana, so we have to pick some up when we’re passing through.

Dan: Now, do they have a swag merch shop or something that we can plug?

Josh: I don’t know. I wish. I know they do some stuff from time to time. They also make tea. Iced tea is a big deal in Pittsburgh. I think it dates back to the steel workers. Iced tea was a big thing for clearing their palate from working in the steel mills, but they have this tea brand, so I know that they do a lot of swag with the tea brand. I don’t know how much swag that they do with the milk products right now.

Dan: I want a Turner’s shirt or hat.

Josh: I think they’ve got some of that. I think a lot of it, it’s more giveaways on social media. If you’re in the Pittsburgh area, or if you’re visiting Pittsburgh and get some Turner stuff, be sure to post it on social media. That’s how you could probably score some Turner stuff.

Dan: Yes. I love it. I love it. Family businesses. You’ve done a lot of work with breweries. Clearly, you don’t like beer.

Katie: I don’t love it. I love sours. I really like sour beers.

Dan: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Katie: And some stouts. I’m a little picky, although everything that Bottle Logic makes is really good. I don’t know. I’ve tasted a lot of their stuff, and then when I go and taste more available craft beer, I’m not as impressed.

Dan: Yeah. That means it’s good, probably. It’s real good.

Katie: They do a good job.

Josh: Before I started working in beer, I liked it, but I didn’t really … It was a luxury when our family was first starting out. I’ve just over the years, I’ve had this first-rate beer education from my clients, and there’s definitely beers that have grown on me over time. My tastes have evolved over the years. I think I’ve gone the classic route of back in the mid-2000s, kind of interested in imports and trying darker beers. That’s the first gateway that people used to go through. Then they’ll start buying more classic porters or stouts and then migrate their way eventually to be trying IPAs. Then they start getting into sours and barrel-aged beers. Then at the end of the day, sometimes you just come back to a really good Kolsch or pilsner that’s just done really, really well. So there’s definitely an evolution that you go through.

Josh: I grew to love beer. It wasn’t something that I ever thought that like, “I just really want to work on beer.” It was more of a realization from the art perspective of I just really love when the work that I do is ingrained as part of the product and not something that is used to manipulate people to buy the product. I like it when the art is synonymous with the product, and people can decide, “Yeah, that’s me,” or, “Yeah, that’s not me.”

Dan: Yeah, that’s great. What a great reason to want to work on something. It comes through, like the Bottle Logic project here, that clearly you’re not just a hired gun here. We need a logo, and create it for us. It’s a whole system. Was that another family style business, Bottle Logic?

Josh: It was three friends that started. They’re definitely family oriented. There’s a husband and wife that works at the brewery. One of the partners and his wife works at the brewery, and then one of the partners met his wife at the brewery. There’s definitely a family aspect to it. I think that’s probably true of most craft breweries. Even if it’s not strictly in the name of a family business, they’re definitely more family oriented in terms of how they’re run and how they treat their customers and staff and everything.

Dan: That’s awesome. I’m curious in terms of working and how you work together and how this stuff comes to be. Is there a lot of sketching initially, or is it all digital? Because there’s so much. You’ve got illustration and typography and lettering and all that stuff working together. I wonder if you could share a little bit of the process for one of these.

Josh: I think sort of a diversity in our work has been driven by the fact that we had focused on craft breweries for a while, and we can’t keep making each craft brewery we work on look the same. I think that also is something that worked well with our personality. I think both of us tend to not want to do the same thing over and over again. As an illustrator, I would have a hard time picking one style and sticking with it, because there’s just so many things that I love and can get just enmeshed into. It’s really hard for me to just pick one style and stick with it. I think that the same is true of Katie. There’s so many things that we like, that it’d be hard for us to just pick one thing and just be that. That’s driven diversity in terms of style, illustration style for one, and that’s kind of one of the things that’s been an interesting question with our design firm, our business, is that I’m sure that people would say that we have a style, but I think personally, I don’t know what that is.

Josh: I think that each time we do an illustration style, we’re usually trying to, for the most part, try to create something new that’s really just appropriate for that client and almost that client can own. That’s not to say that we don’t end up using that illustration style somewhere else, but as opposed to saying, “Oh, this guy would be really good for it.” We’re kind of trying to think, reverse engineer it and really think about how we could create a new style. I think that’s a part of the creative process from the beginning is really we definitely … Like a lot of designers use a lot of mood boards, but we’re really trying to find what things blend well together. That’s probably the really big first … I feel like 90% of what we do is managing the client and then figuring what ingredients we can blend together.

Josh: Then the execution is the part that’s almost, for me, has become the boring part. It’s like yesterday, I was working on a sketch. The frustrating part was I had to do the sketch to show the client, but I had everything worked out in my head at this point. It’s like just trying to sit down and show the client that all these elements can work and come together to move on to the next thing. But in terms of working together, right now, Katie is just … Our kids are now all off into school, so she has more time for the business. So she’s been primarily she was helping with accounting and billing and all that boring stuff. But now, she’s finally starting to do more work on her own. We just worked on a project that we can’t talk about, but …

Katie: It’s top secret.

Josh: It’s top secret.

Dan: Oh, shoot.

Josh: Fun for her. It was fun to see her really take the lead on something for the first time in a long time.

Katie: Over a decade.

Josh: It was fun to actually also, from my perspective, step back and not have to work on it.

Dan: I bet.

Josh: It was nice. Yeah. I don’t know. I think our process probably looks the same as a lot of other designers. I think it’s just really how you solve problems is different. I think the way that I tend to approach every project is because I’m a big movie buff. I really think of each project almost as a feature film and a story that I’m trying to tell. I think that bleeds into things like Campy Creatures, but I tend to think of things almost like a method actor. I just get … I have an obsessive personality, where with Turner’s, I was just consuming all this Pennsylvania history and studying Pennsylvania Dutch folk art and all these things. I love just going down the rabbit trail of stuff. There’s almost nothing in this world that I can’t, art form-wise or whatever, that I can’t appreciate in some way if I can learn enough about it. I think that’s been a big part of our process.

Katie: I think the style that comes through, like if people were to look at our work and see a style, I think that would be contributed to the fact that Josh is so intentional about everything he puts onto a label or whatever he’s producing. Everything has been researched. Everything has been thought through, and there’s an intentionality that comes through on all the work that comes out of Emrich Office. I think that’s what people might see, because there’s so many different illustration styles that he can accomplish, because he’s extremely talented. A talented man.

Josh: Oh, thanks.

Dan: Yes.

Katie: That intentionality and integration of a story and an idea that comes through in the type and the illustration and everything that you see on the label or whatever the product is.

Dan: I totally agree. I think looking at your work page, for instance, I don’t see. I see perfect execution of various styles, to me. Nothing looks taken from another project. It’s just this giant body of work that it’s just so impressive. I think that’s … That makes sense in terms of what you were saying before about, Josh, about being a method actor for the client. I think the clients are lucky to hire you guys, because I think there is true care, I think, as you were saying, Katie, about everything is intentional. That shows. I imagine that the clients like working with you.

Josh: I hope so. There’s times where I’ve probably given more than a client wants, and that can feel … When they just want this, X, Y, and Z, and I never give them X, Y, and Z. It’s like I always have to push it. Sometimes that gets exhausting, too. Sometimes you just need to make money and get paid and get a project done, and they want to cross something off their list, but I think for the most part, too, I think the client … We’ve been lucky to have our clients. There’s been instances where our clients have really looked out for us and have had our back.

Josh: There was an example once when we were buying our house in Indiana where it was delayed. It was really late, and then it ended up there was some cost overruns. We were trying to think … It was over what we had budgeted, and it fell right … Everything fell, ended up falling at this time when cashflow wasn’t good, because we were waiting on stuff. We weren’t able to complete as much work as we normally would because we were in the process of moving. One of my clients kept asking about how things were going with the house. He said, “What if we pre-purchased a bunch of your hours? We don’t know what we’re going to use it all on yet, but what if we did that?” …

Dan: Oh, wow.

Josh: … and gave us basically the financial security for us to feel like we didn’t have to walk away. We were on that verge of is this going to put us in a bad spot in a few months, or can we weather this storm? They’ve gone to bat for us, as well. I think those type of relationships, that just doesn’t fall out of the sky. I think that’s finding something. That’s cultivating it from your side, but also being able for those people, letting them into your life enough to where they care about you as a person and not just what you do for them.

Dan: Yeah. That’s the way it should be. That’s amazing that they … It becomes personal, right?

Josh: Right.

Dan: In a good way. In a good way.

Josh: That’s the way that I feel like business has been. The good side of business has always been there like that. I think as a student, I wanted to work with these big companies that do great work. What I discovered over time was that the work that you’re usually the most passionate about is this kind of stuff, where you end up with a client that really trusts you and goes to bat for you.

Josh: I think the other side of that is somebody has to create the next round of cool stuff. As much as I’m a Star Wars fan and would love to do fan art or something like that, I think it’s really important to think about those brands or those things that you love had to start somewhere. Wouldn’t it be a lot more fun if you were part of the team that made that great new thing? I think sometimes now, I feel like designers can be overly drawn to the things that they love that already exist and not the things that they could make. That’s something that I’ve really appreciated about the client relationship and even working with small clients that nobody has ever heard of is that one of these days, I’m going to work with someone that is going to create the next big thing as opposed to jumping onto something that already exists and just being a cog in the wheel for that.

Dan: That’s amazing. I’m pretty sure you will or you already have. Totally.

Dan: Josh, Katie, thanks a million for being on today. It was awesome to hear about some of your work. Again, I’m just so impressed with it, and I can’t wait to see what you guys are working on next.

Katie: Thank you. We’re happy to talk to you.

Dan: Awesome.

Josh: Thanks. That’s going to come out in late summer.

Dan: Oh, excellent.

Josh: It’s completely-

Dan: Tell us about that.

Josh: It’s completely different than Campy Creatures. It’s called Caper, and it’s a game that started off in Europe. Keymaster and I worked together to reimagine it for the US audience. All the artwork’s done. There’s just so much of it that we’re slow releasing it.

Dan: Oh, yeah. You’ve been putting shots on Dribble for this. Yeah. This looks outstanding.

Josh: It’s kind of quirky, and it’s a little bit more cartoony, but it’s basically this like a heist movie set in 1960s something Europe. Players draft thieves and deploy them at different locations and equip them with gadgets to take the most loot, but everything has a little bit of a … I guess the best way to describe it is it’s got a little bit of a Wes Anderson vibe, like as if Wes Anderson directed a heist Pixar movie or something like that. It’s got that vibe a little bit. It was a fun departure. It’s a little bit different than anything else. I think this one has a lot of spot illustrations, but you don’t really get a sense of the game until you have it all laid out in front of you.

Josh: There’s a ton of stuff.

Katie: I’m excited to see that one after production in person.

Dan: Yeah, I am, too. I’m just looking through this. This looks amazing. You even have a mock up of the box, even. Yeah, this looks fantastic. I can’t wait. A drafting game for scoundrels.

Josh: Yeah. A drafting game is basically the mechanic, so people that are super into games would know what that is, but I don’t know if probably the most mainstream game is Sushi Go. It’s the idea where you’re basically passing cards or objects from player to player, and you’re pulling out the ones that you want while trying to keep your opponents from getting the things that they want.

Dan: Oh. Okay, cool.

Josh: You’re basically drafting the right combination of cards to work with your strategy.

Dan: Got you. Reminds me of Uno, maybe, but in a much higher, much more interesting level than just three yellow or something.

Josh: Right, yeah. The mechanic would be you go through rounds of trying to select the right thieves to implement your strategy at different locations, and then you go through a round of equipping them with gadgets. Then you go through another round of deploying more thieves. Basically, you’re passing the hand that you had to your opponent. They select something, and then they pass it back to you, and then you select something. That’s basically how it works.

Dan: Wow. Yeah. The thieves are … You’ve illustrated all the thieves, and they’re amazing. The boxer and the bookie, the royal. These are fantastic.

Katie: Yeah, that was fun to watch.

Dan: I want to see the animated movie of this when it’s done.

Josh: Even with Campy Creatures, we’re really trying to create intellectual property for each game that we do that isn’t just a trope. There’s some tropes in there that you have to do because you have limited storytelling abilities within a game, because it’s not like a movie sitting before you, but we really want to help … Each game we worked on with Keymaster, we’re really trying to push those characters to something where there’s something quirky or unique or interesting or there’s some type of storytelling element that feels good but fresh at the same time. That’s what our goal was with all those characters. There was 24 characters, and then I don’t know how many … I think 24 gadgets, and then there’s 23 locations. Basically, it ended up being 75 illustrations, somewhere in that neighborhood, that we had to get done between … I think we started in November and finished up in early March.

Dan: Wow, wow. This has been a big project for you recently.

Katie: Yeah. It’s a lot of time.

Dan: Awesome. I can’t wait to see it and play it, as with Campy Creatures and everything else. I want to drink all the beer and drink all the milk.

Josh: That sounds like a party.

Dan: It really does, right?

Katie: Chase the beer with the milk.

Josh: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Josh: The milk is for the under 21 crowd.

Dan: That’s right.

Katie: The milk is to balance you back out after drinking all the beer.

Dan: All the beer.

Josh: I don’t know.

Katie: I don’t know if that will work.

Dan: I think that’s an urban legend that’s true, though.

Katie: Milk’s got protein and the sugars in there.

Dan: I think it’s great. I’ve never tried it, but I’m going to now.

Josh: We just need to get some potato chip companies, like Kraft potato chip companies, and then we’d have this whole game night in terms of all of our clients.

Dan: You really would. That’s incredible. You’re going to have to do it, or at least have … You could have a night already without the chips. This is awesome. I can’t wait to see everything that you are going to be creating in the future. Just keep up the awesome work, because it’s just really a delight to watch.

Josh: Thank you so much. That means a lot.

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